MSF vs Team Oregon

[Denny]

Team Oregon does a great job but it sounds like they and their supporters are trying to use the state to protect their turf from a competitor. I don't know a thing about educational theory, but MSF is good enough to be accepted in most other states and, putting aside the personality clashes with the organizations reps, the are likely good enough for OR as well. Seems like there is enough business for both anyway. It takes likes 4 months for a person to get in. That needs to change because some people will just forget the whole thing.

[SpeedGeek]

Originally Posted by Denny

Seems like there is enough business for both anyway. It takes likes 4 months for a person to get in. That needs to change because some people will just forget the whole thing.

True, I'm sure there is enough business for both, and a new rider should do some research into the course they are going to take and what others recommend. That being said, if MSF were to come to Oregon they could wrangle some business, but if Team Oregon really is that much better, then MSF will only get the leftovers.

I for one am a Team Oregon supporter and not really in favor of MSF. I know 4 people that have taken the Team Oregon course this year (including my wife). None had to wait for months to get in. I believe the longest wait by any of them was about 4 weeks. My wife only had to wait a couple weeks to get into hers in March. It is only during the nice summer months that the waiting period gets longer, so my advice is PLAN AHEAD.

[CASH]

90% of motorcycle accidents are caused by untrained riders( those that have not attended a saftey class). Good point Denny,there is plenty to go around. Another little point is the US military does not reconize team oregon as a saftey course so any person that wants to ride on base must take an MSF course. If oregon does not offer a MSF course then what are those in the military to do?

[Macavite]

Originally Posted by CASH

90% of motorcycle accidents are caused by untrained riders( those that have not attended a saftey class). Good point Denny,there is plenty to go around. Another little point is the US military does not reconize team oregon as a saftey course so any person that wants to ride on base must take an MSF course. If oregon does not offer a MSF course then what are those in the military to do?

I'm interested in knowing how that 90 percent statistic compares to how many riders on the road overall have taken a safety course. Do you know where it came from?

My understanding is that Oregon does offer MSF courses. The MSF site in your sig does list a training center for Oregon. The difference is that any new military rider would need to take that course AND take the DMV test to get their initial license. The meeting I initially mentioned wasn't about the MSF's right to practice in Oregon, it was about students with MSF completion cards being able to bypass the DMV test.

[Mianus]

Originally Posted by Fly'n Brian

I would agree the more you know the better. but I have done both the basic team oregon class and the advanced rider training. The basic course teaches bad habits and good habits but I had to break myself of a lot of bad things that team oregon teaches. The major two pluses I would say about the basic course is it by passes dmv testing and if you wreck its not your bike.

Care to elaborate on the bad habits they teach?

I took the basic course and thought it was great. Yes you may have been bored and too advanced for it but you have to remember it was designed for people who have never ridden a bike before. So there are some initial basics you have to go through. Its nice because instead of just jumping in and buying a bike you get he chance to ride a little bit and see if its really for you without a major investment. The biggest downside i see is the classes are always full come summertime and the mid and advannced class aren't offered enough. I'm also pissed that all the insurance companies are going away from giving discounts for taking it. I'm sure the payout from one accident more then pays for the discount.

[toolfan]

Originally Posted by CASH

Another little point is the US military does not reconize team oregon as a saftey course so any person that wants to ride on base must take an MSF course. If oregon does not offer a MSF course then what are those in the military to do?

Not sure that's true, I recently met someone who was in the Army and took the team oregon class to ride on base.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by CASH

By who? The MSF is the Motorcycle Saftey Foundationhttp://www.msf-usa.org/ . Team Oregon is NOT an MSF sanctioned training program and every state in the USA uses the MSF training but Oregon. So I guess the other 49 state must just be wrong?!? :chair I think that artical is political BS. Nothing more than propaganda. :bomb

Ok, one question. Who or whom is MSF funded by besides the money paid in for classes..hmm? That would be the major motorcycle companies. And what are their motivations? You being the best street rider possible? Or would that be you passing so you can buy a bike?

Team Oregon is considered farm more stringent than MSF is. So...I'll take a unique program NOT sanctioned by a for-profit company.

[Chris]

Flyn...what bad habits did they teach you? Please, do tell. And as for the military not sactioning MRF, that it not a huge issue and not really a show stopper.

[Ellen]

Originally Posted by Chris

Team Oregon is considered farm more stringent than MSF is. So...I'll take a unique program NOT sanctioned by a for-profit company.

Interesting. I have not taken a Team Oregon class, but took several MSF classes in Chicago. From talking to friends who have taken Team Oregon, I think I got a lot more training than they did. A lot more hours both on the bike and in the classroom, for starters. A friend of mine who did the Team Oregon class last month told me they didn't practice a lot of the drills we did in MSF, like controlling the bike during a rear wheel lock-up. He also said the classroom time was spent with going around the room and having student reading from the book. My MSF classroom time was spent with teachers who explained the book but also answered a ton of questions and really interacted with the students. Maybe I just got lucky.

[DUCSBKdude]

Originally Posted by Chris

Flyn...what bad habits did they teach you? Please, do tell. And as for the military not sactioning MRF, that it not a huge issue and not really a show stopper.

Yes, please do, I am very curious too, as I took the class a few years back and can't distinctly remember anything that was bad...but I could be just forgetting something too... :thinking

[Breezio]

Originally Posted by Ellen

Interesting. I have not taken a Team Oregon class, but took several MSF classes in Chicago. From talking to friends who have taken Team Oregon, I think I got a lot more training than they did. A lot more hours both on the bike and in the classroom, for starters. A friend of mine who did the Team Oregon class last month told me they didn't practice a lot of the drills we did in MSF, like controlling the bike during a rear wheel lock-up. He also said the classroom time was spent with going around the room and having student reading from the book. My MSF classroom time was spent with teachers who explained the book but also answered a ton of questions and really interacted with the students. Maybe I just got lucky.

Your MSF class sounds just about identical with my time in the Team Oregon class.

Including dealing with rear and front brake lockup.

[Macavite]

Originally Posted by Ellen

Interesting. I have not taken a Team Oregon class, but took several MSF classes in Chicago. From talking to friends who have taken Team Oregon, I think I got a lot more training than they did. A lot more hours both on the bike and in the classroom, for starters. A friend of mine who did the Team Oregon class last month told me they didn't practice a lot of the drills we did in MSF, like controlling the bike during a rear wheel lock-up. He also said the classroom time was spent with going around the room and having student reading from the book. My MSF classroom time was spent with teachers who explained the book but also answered a ton of questions and really interacted with the students. Maybe I just got lucky.

Well, I can't speak to a MSF class, I've never taken one. The introductory weekend class with team oregon is about 9 hours on a bike and 11 in a classroom. In terms of miles, most bikes get about 25 over the weekend.

Skids are covered in classroom in some detail, but not specifically practiced. They often happen during the second (quick) braking drill, but they're not the goal.

In terms of the classroom i think that just depends on your instructor. I've seen some great ones and some merely adequite ones. Reading from the book I have not seen at all.